I think in general the Rift is a great bit of kit, however I think it's a couple of revisions away from being viable.
What brought it home to me was that he's basically got a Nexus 7 bolted to his face, and each eye is only getting half the screen... and of course 90% of your eyes ability to see detail is in the centre only, so you end up with the vast majority of your visual processing focused on a relatively small number of pixels.
I've seen several reviews that say any kind of text is virtually un-readable, which means most menus. I know that for the production version they are hoping to get 2 of the screens that (I think) the Samsung Galaxy 4 has, but you're still throwing a lot of the pixels to fill in the periphery. I think the end result is that some games will work better than others (no menus/on-screen HUD, for example) initially, until screen technology catches up with the resolution that the thing desperately needs...
(also, as a motion sickness sufferer, I have to assume I'll need to build up my sea legs with it...)
Submitted by babychaos on Wed, 2013-05-08 21:11
I'm interested in the rift but the current units are still early development prototypes it needs specific support in games to work properly so I'm waiting to see how it pans out. The motion sickness aspect also bothers me I've experienced it in some fps's with a static screen not strapped to my head where they've done too much view bob so given the prototype rifts have made some people violently sick who weren't that motion sick it's a concern
Submitted by Evilmatt on Wed, 2013-05-08 21:31
I've had motion sickness on 2 games...one was at a Blondecon (bright, garish colours, and just a bit too much screen lag...can't remember the game/mod), and the other was Red Steel on the Wii (screen lag).
I'd always equated it to the screen lag, never thought about the view bob as a factor...
Submitted by babychaos on Thu, 2013-05-09 08:26
I've played with a bunch of headsets in the past, some horrendously expensive ones that Comp Sci had at Uni. I got really bad motion sickness (which I don't get at all normally) if it's set up incorrectly. IIRC (was a long time ago) the affecting factors were:
Bad field of view - you're not a chameleon, so don't make the field too wide
Sensitivity - small movement in the head leads to huge movement in the avatar is really sick-making
Never being still - humans are really good at keeping their head still. If the environment produces a movement for you, then it's sick making. It was the same flying - you always tried to return to straight and level flight after teaching a manoeuvre to let the balance of the passenger return.
Lag - as you've both pointed out, it's a killer
I agree that the rift totally needs some revisions. Hopefully they'll make a bunch of money on this one so that all the big players enter the market with high res screens.
Submitted by brainwipe on Thu, 2013-05-09 10:25
The Rift uses lensing to concentrate pixels towards the centre of the display to avoid wasting detail out on the periphery. That's one of the main reasons it needs dedicated game support to function; a pixel shader is used to correct for the distortion that lensing introduces.
That's also the main reason text and menus tend to be unreadable in current prototypes; most games don't pipe their UI elements through the same 3D engine the game itself uses. So unless they also rewrite their UI engine (which is a lower priority at this stage) that means no stereoscopic display and no pixel shaders to do lens correction. Any actual released game obviously wouldn't have that particular problem.
Resolution is certainly an issue in the prototype models (I think it's effectively 800x600 or something? too low for most current games, anyway.) The consumer version sounds like it should be adequate by launch though (just a hair short of 1080p, I think.) Not great, but good enough.
The problems I don't see being solved by launch are motion sickness, eye strain and game developers actually knowing how to do good stereoscopic 3D.
Also, I'd really like to know how the lensing works in practice, since the user is quite capable of aiming his eyes away from the centre of the display. How natural will that detail disparity look?
Edit to add: Also, what about people who wear glasses? Will it fit over them? How will the lensing interact? I read an interview a while ago where they were talking about using the same software that adjusts for their lensing to adjust for the user's eye problem, but that's got to be a few years in the future yet.
Submitted by AggroBoy on Fri, 2013-05-10 00:25
I'm pretty sure I've read that the lenses are interchangeable, so you could (in theory) put prescription lenses in).
(edit...found it PA Report . Also put res per eye at 640 x 800, which is pretty low)
You can adjust the focal length with a side-adjuster, so in theory you should be able to set it up for yourself.
The motion sickness...well, there is no magic cure really, same as there is no magic trick for car/sea sickness. You can "train" yourself out of it to some extent, there are some anti-nausea drugs (Pro-Tip, if you're being sick already, it's too late to take them...I discovered that whale-watching in Iceland), but while there is an inner-ear/visual disconnect of any sort, some people will suffer, based in individual sensitivity.
Submitted by babychaos on Fri, 2013-05-10 08:52
Oh yeah - that would work. I imagine getting custom lenses made that do their weird adjustments and account for my prescription would be expensive though. Still; could be worth it if the games are as good as early reviews make them sound.
I'm not too worried about motion sickness for myself; it's not something I typically suffer from, so I imagine I'll be one of the people who can train their brain to deal with the conflicting inputs relatively easily; same way 3D cinema doesn't cause me headaches, and I can read on the train without problems.
Submitted by AggroBoy on Fri, 2013-05-10 11:10
For me;
3D Cinema - fine
Reading (train) - fine
Reading (car) - vomitus
Reading (motorbike) - silly idea/disregard
Passenger (coach) - vomitus after 15-20 mins
Passenger (car) - 25/30% vomitus
Passenger/Driver (motorbike) - fine
Passenger (small boat) - vomitus
Passenger (large boat/ship) - 10-15% vomitus
User (park swing) - 25-30% vomitus
Rollercoasters - fine
So I reckon for me it's specifically an inner-ear/visibility disconnect that causes it, and certain frequencies cause it more (small boats and coaches are the worst, though park swings are surprisingly effective as well). Trains cause me no issues (other than the inherent nausea screaming kids cause), and I can happily throw myself over bumpy ground all day on mountain bikes/motorbikes.
Interestingly, at a very young age (
...anyway, I'll definitely need to try and (probably) get used to using a VR headset. On the plus side I have pretty much 20:20 vision, so shouldn't have to worry about adjustments...
Submitted by babychaos on Fri, 2013-05-10 11:31
I used to have trouble with small boats as a kid, but regular sea-rowing as a teenager cured me of that. Since then the only time I get anything remotely like motion sickness is in light aircraft (large ones are fine.) I think it's a combination of no baseline of stationary-ness (which is different to a boat, since even though boats are constantly moving, all your vertical motion is -hopefully- within a limited range and corresponds to something you can see) and a completely unreliable horizon.
WRT to the trigger frequencies, check out Flicker Veritgo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flicker_vertigo). I imaghine it's possible that things other than light or sound could trigger that, or something like it.
Anyway, by weird coincidence a friend of mine's employer got a Rift for the staff to play with in the office today. His review after a few minutes is (paraphrasing) "weird but cool. noticeable but low lag. Resolution is a little low. given it's a dev kit: awesome."
I've asked how the motion sickness/eye-strain felt, but haven't heard back yet. I guess he wasn't playing long enough to get a read on that.
Comments
I think in general the Rift is a great bit of kit, however I think it's a couple of revisions away from being viable.
What brought it home to me was that he's basically got a Nexus 7 bolted to his face, and each eye is only getting half the screen... and of course 90% of your eyes ability to see detail is in the centre only, so you end up with the vast majority of your visual processing focused on a relatively small number of pixels.
I've seen several reviews that say any kind of text is virtually un-readable, which means most menus. I know that for the production version they are hoping to get 2 of the screens that (I think) the Samsung Galaxy 4 has, but you're still throwing a lot of the pixels to fill in the periphery. I think the end result is that some games will work better than others (no menus/on-screen HUD, for example) initially, until screen technology catches up with the resolution that the thing desperately needs...
(also, as a motion sickness sufferer, I have to assume I'll need to build up my sea legs with it...)
I'm interested in the rift but the current units are still early development prototypes it needs specific support in games to work properly so I'm waiting to see how it pans out. The motion sickness aspect also bothers me I've experienced it in some fps's with a static screen not strapped to my head where they've done too much view bob so given the prototype rifts have made some people violently sick who weren't that motion sick it's a concern
I've had motion sickness on 2 games...one was at a Blondecon (bright, garish colours, and just a bit too much screen lag...can't remember the game/mod), and the other was Red Steel on the Wii (screen lag).
I'd always equated it to the screen lag, never thought about the view bob as a factor...
I've played with a bunch of headsets in the past, some horrendously expensive ones that Comp Sci had at Uni. I got really bad motion sickness (which I don't get at all normally) if it's set up incorrectly. IIRC (was a long time ago) the affecting factors were:
I agree that the rift totally needs some revisions. Hopefully they'll make a bunch of money on this one so that all the big players enter the market with high res screens.
The Rift uses lensing to concentrate pixels towards the centre of the display to avoid wasting detail out on the periphery. That's one of the main reasons it needs dedicated game support to function; a pixel shader is used to correct for the distortion that lensing introduces.
That's also the main reason text and menus tend to be unreadable in current prototypes; most games don't pipe their UI elements through the same 3D engine the game itself uses. So unless they also rewrite their UI engine (which is a lower priority at this stage) that means no stereoscopic display and no pixel shaders to do lens correction. Any actual released game obviously wouldn't have that particular problem.
Resolution is certainly an issue in the prototype models (I think it's effectively 800x600 or something? too low for most current games, anyway.) The consumer version sounds like it should be adequate by launch though (just a hair short of 1080p, I think.) Not great, but good enough.
The problems I don't see being solved by launch are motion sickness, eye strain and game developers actually knowing how to do good stereoscopic 3D.
Also, I'd really like to know how the lensing works in practice, since the user is quite capable of aiming his eyes away from the centre of the display. How natural will that detail disparity look?
Edit to add: Also, what about people who wear glasses? Will it fit over them? How will the lensing interact? I read an interview a while ago where they were talking about using the same software that adjusts for their lensing to adjust for the user's eye problem, but that's got to be a few years in the future yet.
I'm pretty sure I've read that the lenses are interchangeable, so you could (in theory) put prescription lenses in).
(edit...found it PA Report . Also put res per eye at 640 x 800, which is pretty low)
You can adjust the focal length with a side-adjuster, so in theory you should be able to set it up for yourself.
The motion sickness...well, there is no magic cure really, same as there is no magic trick for car/sea sickness. You can "train" yourself out of it to some extent, there are some anti-nausea drugs (Pro-Tip, if you're being sick already, it's too late to take them...I discovered that whale-watching in Iceland), but while there is an inner-ear/visual disconnect of any sort, some people will suffer, based in individual sensitivity.
Oh yeah - that would work. I imagine getting custom lenses made that do their weird adjustments and account for my prescription would be expensive though. Still; could be worth it if the games are as good as early reviews make them sound.
I'm not too worried about motion sickness for myself; it's not something I typically suffer from, so I imagine I'll be one of the people who can train their brain to deal with the conflicting inputs relatively easily; same way 3D cinema doesn't cause me headaches, and I can read on the train without problems.
For me;
3D Cinema - fine
Reading (train) - fine
Reading (car) - vomitus
Reading (motorbike) - silly idea/disregard
Passenger (coach) - vomitus after 15-20 mins
Passenger (car) - 25/30% vomitus
Passenger/Driver (motorbike) - fine
Passenger (small boat) - vomitus
Passenger (large boat/ship) - 10-15% vomitus
User (park swing) - 25-30% vomitus
Rollercoasters - fine
So I reckon for me it's specifically an inner-ear/visibility disconnect that causes it, and certain frequencies cause it more (small boats and coaches are the worst, though park swings are surprisingly effective as well). Trains cause me no issues (other than the inherent nausea screaming kids cause), and I can happily throw myself over bumpy ground all day on mountain bikes/motorbikes.
Interestingly, at a very young age (
...anyway, I'll definitely need to try and (probably) get used to using a VR headset. On the plus side I have pretty much 20:20 vision, so shouldn't have to worry about adjustments...
I used to have trouble with small boats as a kid, but regular sea-rowing as a teenager cured me of that. Since then the only time I get anything remotely like motion sickness is in light aircraft (large ones are fine.) I think it's a combination of no baseline of stationary-ness (which is different to a boat, since even though boats are constantly moving, all your vertical motion is -hopefully- within a limited range and corresponds to something you can see) and a completely unreliable horizon.
WRT to the trigger frequencies, check out Flicker Veritgo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flicker_vertigo). I imaghine it's possible that things other than light or sound could trigger that, or something like it.
Anyway, by weird coincidence a friend of mine's employer got a Rift for the staff to play with in the office today. His review after a few minutes is (paraphrasing) "weird but cool. noticeable but low lag. Resolution is a little low. given it's a dev kit: awesome."
I've asked how the motion sickness/eye-strain felt, but haven't heard back yet. I guess he wasn't playing long enough to get a read on that.
Another good Occulus Rift vid.