That's seriously impressive. And it highlights just how irrelevant flash has become. html5 and the high performance javascript engines in modern browsers can do pretty much anything it can, are based on open standards, and don't crash your (well, my) browser every 5 minutes.
I still don't like javascript as a language, but it's here to stay, and I'll take it over flash any day of the week.
Edit: Actually, js/html5 might not manage games as well as flash does... I think it's mostly untested.
Submitted by AggroBoy on Tue, 2010-02-02 11:55
Flash is still here for some time to come but I think its days are numbered. Mostly because Flsah sits within its own space on the page and cannot interact easily (yes yes with Javascript) with other items on the page - just as z-indexes and transparency.
It's a new technology but I think it's one to watch.
Submitted by brainwipe on Tue, 2010-02-02 12:04
//Argument Mode on
I can see 2 3 reasons why Flash will remain "industry standard"
1) Looking at the page source for that it's extremely complex. Undoubtedly impressive, however it would be an extremely long development cycle. By comparison a similar tool could be whipped up in Flash pretty quickly (I did something similar in Flash5 ages ago, and it took me about 3-4 hours). As a visual/graphic development toolkit Flash can be used pretty quickly. The same things that make it frustrating for proper coders allows noddy coders like myself to very quickly throw out a visually-based program.
2) Very, very hard to secure your code with Javascript. Once youy've spent ages developing your tool/toy/thing there is nothing stopping someone cutting/pasting your work, and quickly re-branding it. While you can de-compile Flash files, the end result is less than great, and it's fairly simple to embed security within it to stop it working off your own site
3) Flash can be used as a standalone app. Take Popcap as an example...they can develop a webgame, and also use a very similar base for a premium "use anywhere" version (which is pretty much their business model).
Submitted by babychaos on Tue, 2010-02-02 15:03
Right!
1) Can you knock up pixel based canvas drawing in a vector app? I am not sure you can. Furthermore modern programs are complex when you look at the finished thing. That's not how they are created.
2) All .NET technologies (and Java) can be reflected and thus you can view other people's code. Yes, all of it. You get round this by using obfuscation tools that rename code to make it very difficult to steal the important bits. If you really care. Also, you can set up a Javascript to run only on your own site exactly as Flash does - by using a server side link. Just like Flash does.
3) You can't use Flash on iPhones, iPads and it crashes Mac browsers. The IT industry is generally moving away from stand-alone apps and moving into the cloud. My job in the past few years has been doing just that.
Here's three back at you...
4) You can't develop in Flash without Adobe's tool. Which is fucking astronomically expensive compared to notepad.
5) Flash does not directly sit among other HTML elements, so it will always be in an enclosed space of its own. If you want a tightly defined GUI, HTML5/Javascript+CSS wins over flash every time.
6) Flash is written in spasticscript that is not an open standard and at the beck and call of Adobe, not the community.
Submitted by brainwipe on Tue, 2010-02-02 15:18
The very fact it kills Apple products puts it top of my list of development tools. Even funnier when you consider my cheap-as-chips Nokia runs it very happily...
Submitted by babychaos on Tue, 2010-02-02 15:21
The you should be coding in .NET because that won't natively run on an Apple machine.
Submitted by brainwipe on Tue, 2010-02-02 16:04
At the risk of derailing the religious war, Flash runs fine on my Mac; it's the XP box I use at work that it routinely kills.
As Tech goes, I'm pretty agnostic. I JUST WANT LOTS OF IT.
Submitted by brainwipe on Tue, 2010-02-02 16:59
Oh yeah, that. Honestly, I'm not sure that report is genuine, but it's not important; it's the sort of thing Jobs might have said. In any case, my experience of the past few years is that when computers crash, it's flash. (Or something I wrote and am trying to debug.)
I wouldn't call myself agnostic; there are certainly things I hate (and love,) I just tend not to be partisan about it.
edit: replaced 'prejudiced' with 'partisan' because it's a better word.
Comments
That's seriously impressive. And it highlights just how irrelevant flash has become. html5 and the high performance javascript engines in modern browsers can do pretty much anything it can, are based on open standards, and don't crash your (well, my) browser every 5 minutes.
I still don't like javascript as a language, but it's here to stay, and I'll take it over flash any day of the week.
Edit: Actually, js/html5 might not manage games as well as flash does... I think it's mostly untested.
Flash is still here for some time to come but I think its days are numbered. Mostly because Flsah sits within its own space on the page and cannot interact easily (yes yes with Javascript) with other items on the page - just as z-indexes and transparency.
It's a new technology but I think it's one to watch.
//Argument Mode on
I can see
23 reasons why Flash will remain "industry standard"1) Looking at the page source for that it's extremely complex. Undoubtedly impressive, however it would be an extremely long development cycle. By comparison a similar tool could be whipped up in Flash pretty quickly (I did something similar in Flash5 ages ago, and it took me about 3-4 hours). As a visual/graphic development toolkit Flash can be used pretty quickly. The same things that make it frustrating for proper coders allows noddy coders like myself to very quickly throw out a visually-based program.
2) Very, very hard to secure your code with Javascript. Once youy've spent ages developing your tool/toy/thing there is nothing stopping someone cutting/pasting your work, and quickly re-branding it. While you can de-compile Flash files, the end result is less than great, and it's fairly simple to embed security within it to stop it working off your own site
3) Flash can be used as a standalone app. Take Popcap as an example...they can develop a webgame, and also use a very similar base for a premium "use anywhere" version (which is pretty much their business model).
Right!
1) Can you knock up pixel based canvas drawing in a vector app? I am not sure you can. Furthermore modern programs are complex when you look at the finished thing. That's not how they are created.
2) All .NET technologies (and Java) can be reflected and thus you can view other people's code. Yes, all of it. You get round this by using obfuscation tools that rename code to make it very difficult to steal the important bits. If you really care. Also, you can set up a Javascript to run only on your own site exactly as Flash does - by using a server side link. Just like Flash does.
3) You can't use Flash on iPhones, iPads and it crashes Mac browsers. The IT industry is generally moving away from stand-alone apps and moving into the cloud. My job in the past few years has been doing just that.
Here's three back at you...
4) You can't develop in Flash without Adobe's tool. Which is fucking astronomically expensive compared to notepad.
5) Flash does not directly sit among other HTML elements, so it will always be in an enclosed space of its own. If you want a tightly defined GUI, HTML5/Javascript+CSS wins over flash every time.
6) Flash is written in spasticscript that is not an open standard and at the beck and call of Adobe, not the community.
The very fact it kills Apple products puts it top of my list of development tools. Even funnier when you consider my cheap-as-chips Nokia runs it very happily...
The you should be coding in .NET because that won't natively run on an Apple machine.
At the risk of derailing the religious war, Flash runs fine on my Mac; it's the XP box I use at work that it routinely kills.
I was referring to Jobs's's's quote that When Macs crash, it's Flash.
As Tech goes, I'm pretty agnostic. I JUST WANT LOTS OF IT.
Oh yeah, that. Honestly, I'm not sure that report is genuine, but it's not important; it's the sort of thing Jobs might have said. In any case, my experience of the past few years is that when computers crash, it's flash. (Or something I wrote and am trying to debug.)
I wouldn't call myself agnostic; there are certainly things I hate (and love,) I just tend not to be partisan about it.
edit: replaced 'prejudiced' with 'partisan' because it's a better word.